"The only way you build real rivalry is through hurt and loss", says Malcolm O'Kelly. "There's got to be a reason why you dislike someone - for me, it took a bit longer than most."
The former Leinster player joined Alan Quinlan last week as part of the Jameson Caskmates and Tonic Social Serve Series. The pair discussed rivalry in sport, what it felt like playing for Ireland and what they think of the current Irish team.
Quinlan talked about the fact that with professionalism, the rivalry began to grow. Malcolm responded: "It ate me up for those few years. It became more difficult for me to be involved with Ireland almost."
The conversation then moved to the rivalry currently with Malcolm commenting: "As long as there's a good heart of Munster players, people will buy into that culture and will be part of it and will do anything. You bet you, Joey Carbery would do anything for that Munster jersey now. I think to suggest that it's diluted is wrong. I think he will learn and buy into the culture and maybe build up his own hurt."
Alan responded: "It was a journey that had a lot of bumps and changes along the way with professionalism.
"Some of the guys now genuinely, they're nearly playing with Ireland now before they're playing against each other provincially. I think that maybe it's Team Ireland now and you can see the benefits of that."
The pair also discussed their views on the current Irish team and that win against the All Blacks. You can watch the full interview above and all Off The Ball social channels.